Pantagraph.com | Money | Proposed Mitsubishi deal: Pay cuts, job security through 2012

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

kidsadvocate2 wrote on Oct 2, 2008 3:53 PM:

" To surviving,
I never put down your family. I don`t know them or you.I hope you will except my sincere appology. You sound like a STAND-UP father & husband. I just got tired of everybody hating on us associates here at mmna. Saying we don`t work. I do work a 8hr. day when the line stops I don`t get to stand around. I work till about a few minutes before the bell. I also own 2 cars. House can pay off at anytime.
I can understand the cuts in benefits , pension, 401k, medical. All of these are a little too much. but to also cut our pay&COLA. they hit us everywhere. They are not being fair. Do you like being lied to, time and time again? me neither...................I`m sorry again.. Hope everything turns out fine for your daughter and family. Enjoy time with your family thats what really matters. "

Former Mitsu wrote on Oct 2, 2008 2:44 PM:

" Additionally, management does not receive compensation for the first hour of overtime each day (and some of their bosses mandate the working of that daily hour). Which, when using the 1.5 multiplier for overtime pay results in another 390 hours of lost pay [ANOTHER 18.75% pay cut]. So please leave your misconstrued comments at home where they belong, your statements are not gaining empathy from the community at large. "

Former Mitsu wrote on Oct 2, 2008 2:43 PM:

" To those associates who must rip management, you are either sadly misinformed or simply stupid. While your pay was momentarily reduced, management has had all raises stopped for 5 of the past six years. Simple math will show you that while your COLA continued to accumulate and be folded into your base pay, their lack of a raise cost them buying power (no raise -3% "cost of living increase"= 3% pay cut). This is equal to a 16.01% pay cut over the past six years (based upon the US Bureau of Labor Statistics CPI labor calculator). In addition, they only received one December and one July teamshare bonus, while having to distribute yours every 6 months. Finally, we (as I was once in that group) had our 401K match suspended several years before the associates (because IRS rules allowed it). 401K rules do not allow a more rubust package for anyone in the organization than the lowest tiered employees. Translated: a former poster is full of it when stating that management was receiving matches that the associates did not (we were simply "re"-instated when you were). "

surviving wrote on Oct 2, 2008 7:36 AM:

" TO kidsadvocate2 You are right I don't spend enough time with my family. Even though my kids are grown I only bowl 2 nights a week with my son and 1 night watching sports . At 21 my daughter has had a fight with cancer but I Bowl a mix league 1 night with my daughter and 1 night just doing whatever. At 5pm every night I am home with my wife of 30 years to help with supper and do whatever. At least 1 night a week we as a family sit down for supper together. We as a family still take at least 1 week a year vacation. Last year Cozumel this year Hawaii next year Alaska. I have a co-pay on ins. through the company I work for. Have a 401k my company does not match. I am 52 and at 591/2 I plan to retire. I have never been on any type of SSI or had a workman"s comp case. I guess I have learned to survive at $14 hour wage. And to think you have judged me the way you did.Is your home life as good. "

reality wrote on Oct 1, 2008 7:43 PM:

" highlndr7 you are way off on your percentages. Do you think all your benefits have no cost to the company? Your true wages are more likely in the $60-$70 range with all the benefits included. It is probably higher since you have better benefits than average and the average age of your workforce.

How are the laid off employees being betrayed? They have not worked at the plant for over 4 years and they should walk in as if nothing has happened? Unless I misread something they WILL get to the $24 pay rate.

The only way the plant CAN stay open is for the contract to go through. That is also the only way a second shift has a chance of starting up again. The fact is that they could not build cars for anyone else because the labor costs are currently too high.

I hope reality sets in with the workers, times are very bad for your industry now. With lending the way it is things are not going to improve anytime soon. "

reality! wrote on Oct 1, 2008 6:19 PM:

" There are a lot of false "facts" being thrown around! Funny how no one is comparing the wages properly, stop using US automakers and use foreign automakers. You will then find your wages far and away at the top! If your job is so hard and bad, very simple solution is to quit and find a better job. I am not saying it is not hard as I know first hand that the trim line does have extremely hard jobs. "

kidsadvocate2 wrote on Oct 1, 2008 3:34 PM:

" For the clueless.
Chryslers latest contract
New agreement base pay $28.05
Beginning COLA float $1.06
Recent COLA float $1.08
Total pay $30.19

GM Latest contract
New Agreement Base $28.12
Beginning COLA float .05
1st-year COLA .12
End of 1st yr. base rate = COLA $28.29

And they also received over $2,000 in bonuses
And I`m suppose to be happy with $24.......
While Mits. Corp. buys up our stock in U.S.A. with our sweat money "

Man wrote on Oct 1, 2008 2:36 PM:

" Are any of you people surprised? Last week you thought the place was closing and this week they take your money away like you are the problem. Was a certain red head bargaining these contracts? She hates all workers there even when her own Daughter was one. "

associate wrote on Sep 30, 2008 11:24 PM:

" As I sit her looking at the sugery scars,my more than a few RX bottles,I realize that my loyalty to this company is onesided. After 20yrs of working for a decent life,we are not asking for anything extra,and if any employer tryed to take away what any of you had worked for,you would all stand your ground,if you say you wouldn't your eather a fool or a liar,and then to betray those who stood by layed off and waiting to come back ,I just cann't do it VOTE NO "

ambeeeant wrote on Sep 30, 2008 10:57 PM:

" After reading through all the reader comments I am impressed at the thought that many have put into what they have said. While I (reluctantly) support approval of the agreement, I can understand the concerns of those who don't. But there are options.

One option is to vote no and cross your fingers that it is a bluff and that the bargaining committee will be able to magically pull a rabbit out of the hat and bring something back at a later time that is better. Just remember Caterpillar.

Another option is to take the early retirement package or the buy-out.

The last option is to vote yes and live to fight another day. One commenter correctly pointed out that there is the opportunity to earn nearly $200,000 over the course of the agreement and maintain healthcare (albeit with some significant cuts).

As for the bargaining committee selling out the membership I would say this. The solution here is simple. Elections are coming up in July of 2009. Put your hats in the ring and become the hero. One word of caution, though. It may not be all it's cracked up to be. "

associate wrote on Sep 30, 2008 10:43 PM:

" Try this;During the 40 millon dollar robbery,mitsubishi took money from all assoc.,as soon as the ink was dry,they gave management 401k match ,the same match they took from us.That is fact And all this talk about them surviving,it was bad managment that put them in this spot,before hard times hit.One would think that if they were trying to survive they would lower the price of a car,but instead they try to shove more gadgets into them,when was the last time you saw a car with crank windows,just an am/fm radio,a regular speaker system "

rackem wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:48 PM:

" to 2tired nothin is guarenteed, close in a year down 86,533.56cents plus medical not!!! "

DNO wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:44 PM:

" AMEN!! highlndr7 "

my side of the fence wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:25 PM:

" Have you asked your State Farm friend or neighbor what they make? or one of our universites whose children will have a free or affordable education, thats part of thier pay! How about our Police/Firemen? The fact is that those of us who put in "our time" , up to 14 years, are loosing substantial amount of pay when called back. Don't kid yourself. We will be called back after MMNA does thier inital "severance" package. Why would'nt they "get rid" of all the "old-timers"..cheaper labor. But to bring back employees who are experienced and have dedicated so much of thier life to MMNA and tell them to do the same job alongside their long time friends for less is insane. To those of you who think anyone can walk in and do the job, you my friend are sadly mistaken. The extreme temps/humidity, repetitive stress on our bodies(evidenced by surgical scars), excessive noise, hot weld slag burns under your skin, metal shavings in your eye, and lets not forget those who have lost thier lives at the plant while doing thier job, has broken many a man or women. "

highlndr7 wrote on Sep 30, 2008 8:34 PM:

" EVERYONE PLEASE LISTEN.... Labor is only, I repeat only 3% of the price of any car!! So how in Gods name are they going to turn a profit by cutting that percent down to 2%? They aren't! They simply see a opportunity to cut from one area namely Labor and transfer it to somewhere else, I'm guessing new product, oops that can't be right they already got 40 million for that from the last pay cut. I guess it will go into their own pockets just like those Wall Street CEO's who ran their companies under and yet still want their bonuses! Come on people think for yourselves! If you love your freedom thank a Veteran! If you love a 8 hour work day, 5 day work week, and not working next to your children Thank a UNION!!! Unions affect all of us whether you are in one or not! Read a little history if you don't believe me. "

JMD wrote on Sep 30, 2008 7:36 PM:

" Thanks to all those who support the laid off!

I think it is a joke to call this a two tier system. It is a THREE tier system. People who had given 10-15 years of their bodies and lives would be paid only $2.80 an hour more than a person who were working their first day. How many years of pay regression would that be for those who are still left on the call back list, a decade or more?

One of the biggest complaints that the lay off have about the 2488 is how badly they are treated by Ralph Timan and Company so this doesn't come as a large surprise. They probably do and should fear the lay off reinstatement because they can expect no support from those they have thrown under the bus in the future. "

verna wrote on Sep 30, 2008 7:30 PM:

" hey shep .... skilled labor that job requires manual dexterity that most people dont posess how dare you go all high and mighty because some people out here dont have college educations once again Bloomington normal mentality if you dont work in a white collar job how dare you expect to make a decent wage... oh and alot of guys out here are just as educated as you white collar wimps that couldnt last a day so go sit at your desk and shuffle some papers ... feel better now "

who cares wrote on Sep 30, 2008 7:23 PM:

" to one of the good guys.that was some hard work.i know personally.i've also baled hay for $4 an hr.the rack is't to bad if there's a breeze,usually not but the 130 DEGREES up in the loft was a real treat.however you bros have put to much into this to start giving who knows what up.you've put a lot of time and your life into the place and it's no way the unions fault that they're failing.it almost looks like they're failing on purpose.for what ever reason. "

mgs500 wrote on Sep 30, 2008 7:16 PM:

" To Shep, you say ANYBODY can do the job right out of high school, REALLY??? I know atleast a half dozen people who didn't pass the tests to work there, I know a couple more who didn't make it through the first week. So to say that anyone could work there right out of high school or even college shows you know little of what you speak.
And yes, I do believe it's a slap in the face of the Associates to ask them to give anything without asking the management to give up the same (percentage wise), but instead, a raise was promised to all non-unoin staff members when the contract gets ratified. Or, maybe the 5 or 6 staff members that said that were lying. "

One of the good guys wrote on Sep 30, 2008 6:43 PM:

" To Big Brother and the others. We do understand the company is trying to survive. We are not asking for more of anything. We just don't want to be the ones raped this time. The company did that once to us and took no cuts of their own. Share the burden please. Step out from your job in an air conditioned office and join me on a nice summer 95 degrees day with 95% humidty, lugging 50lb pieces to the car and assembling them every 50 seconds for 8 hours. You wouldn't last 15 minutes. To JMD we are not betraying our layed off friends. We are fighting the company for them. We want them back at same pay we get. Most of us have agreed that a two tier wage gets no vote. "

abacus101 wrote on Sep 30, 2008 6:35 PM:

" voa - has never said what group he/she worked in while employed at Mitsubishi. "

who cares wrote on Sep 30, 2008 6:28 PM:

" dno,it's a sad thought but everything they can screw the union out of they probably get kick backs.i can either confirm nor dis prove that but i personally wouldn't put it past them.you know how it works.later. "

2488member wrote on Sep 30, 2008 5:48 PM:

" I will never sell out my laidoff or future brothers and sisters!
I will be voting NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!! "

DNO wrote on Sep 30, 2008 5:14 PM:

" I wish the pantagraph would publish salary's for C.O.O. Jerry Berwanger and Mitsubishi's other top brass. I'm sure they don't make crazy money like State Farm, but I bet it's a healthy 6 figures. Everyone knows what the workers make...cmon pantagraph reporters tell us what management makes. I'm sure they are sitting around thinking hmmm , how much of a pay cut should I take.

If this passes, Jerry is going to get a big bonus.......hope he shares it with the bargaining committee. "

kidsadvocate2 wrote on Sep 30, 2008 4:01 PM:

" To Surviving, Must not be so bright. Come on and put your application in. I bet you can`t even pass the test. With all that experience you must of felt good about working for somebody elses retirement. You probably never was home spending time with the wife and kids. Always working. Yea! Wow. pat yourself on the back. Sounds like the kind of life I want to live...................Idiot!!!!!!!!
Your probably going to be one of those working-retired people I always hear about. If they didn`t hire you the first time you applied (which you probably did) they sure not going to the second time. Besides your over the hill !!!!!!!!!!!! "

JMD wrote on Sep 30, 2008 3:19 PM:

" On behalf of all the laid off workers and my husband who had 14 years in before the lay off, SHAME ON YOU FOR BETRAYING THE PEOPLE THAT YOU CALLED BROTHERS AND SISTERS. Is this what Solidarity means to you??? "

T wrote on Sep 30, 2008 3:04 PM:

" Sell the plant to someone else that can manage "

snowmoman wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:30 PM:

" All of you who are slamming the workers for not liking the contract--I guess maybe you couldn't get hired at Mitsu to begin with. Don't worry however, our bargaining committee has whored themselves out enough that it will probably pass. The rest of you need not worry. The union is nearly dead. Soon our wages will be the same, about $9 an hour. "

associate wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:07 PM:

" This looks alot like the caterpillar shaft,take away as much as they can in hopes of making record profits.I would love to hear how all those people taking shots at the mitsubisi workers would feel if their empoyer walked in and said,we are taking $4.00 away from you ,because after all the years you put in,injurys,contract negotiations,and sacrafices, mean nothing,and by the way thats not all we also want more from you.In return we will let you keep a little of what was bargined for over the last 4 or 5 contracts,and as an added slap in your face we will totaly ignore the 40 million dollars you just loaned us. I vote NO!! "

BigBrother wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:02 PM:

" Thanks Jim4 for the advice. I don't need a job myself, but I do know many that would jump at the chance. An opportunity for many to double thier income and have health insurance forthefirst time in thier lives. The main objective is to keep the plant open during a failing economic period. If this is what it takes , then those that are not in agreement should move on. Ignoring the opportunity to stay afloat reminds me of the driver on empty passing the exit because the price for fuel was to high. The price he paid for running out of gas was much greater. "

BigBrother wrote on Sep 30, 2008 11:35 AM:

" A C Herron lives in a dream world where money and benifits grows on trees. 56,000 cars does not even pay the overhead for this plant. Mitsubishi could have cut thier losses and closed the plant. Three months severence pay is about 12K. You would find it hard to get a job that pays even the 16 dollars an hour. Common sense tells me this is an attempt by Mitsubishi to keep the plant open and ride the economic storm. Banks loans for vehicles are freezing up, unemployment is at an all time high, companies are closing the doors all over this country. Car sales are down by at least 30%. "

shep wrote on Sep 30, 2008 11:04 AM:

" "A slap in the face." Give me a break. It's a sign of the economic times. You're making $24 an hour to do a job that ANYBODY could do right out of high school. That's all they required when you were hired. We're not talking skilled labor here folks. If you don't take it, a few months down the road you'll wish you had and the company will be all too happy to hire the people willing to work for $14 an hour. These people will have your jobs and know how it do it as well as you. Those of us on the outside work as hard as any of you on the inside, so quit you're whining and think about it, or you'll be unemployed. "

surviving wrote on Sep 30, 2008 10:43 AM:

" I am out here in the real world making $14 an hour. And I know I work as hard or harder and get as dirty or dirtier than anyone there at the plant. I am a welder,electrician, janitor and a heavey equipment operator. I have a nice house two newer autos ( one a 08 Mitsubishi because I believe in supporting local bussiness). Put 2 kids through school. You know I would be in line for that $14 hour job because of the gurantee of a wage increase and the benefits that are still offered. Oh yeah look out in the Mitsu employee parking lot and see how many employe patronize the place they work at "

cub wrote on Sep 30, 2008 10:11 AM:

" my bet is the union folks vote "no" because they don't want to give ANYTHING up. Most of the working public has copays and deductibles on their health insurance. just part of life. You guys have had it too good for too long. and how would anyone ever survive on $24 per hour???? rolling eyes!!! "

Gardener wrote on Sep 30, 2008 8:16 AM:

" TAKE IT! Where else are you going to make $24.00 an hour? Nowhere! "

2tired wrote on Sep 30, 2008 7:43 AM:

" Let's do a little math for the people that is bad mouthing the new contract. You vote yes at $24/ hr @2040/yr for 4 years you'll make $195840. You vote no and Mitsubishi shuts down the plant, and there is no other $24/hr paying jobs around. So you got to Cat and get paid $14/ hr (That's if you hire in top machinest pay, otherwise it will be closer to $10) . $14/hr x 2040 hr/yr X 4 years gives you $114240.00. To me voting no looks like you'll take a $81,600.00 pay cut. Vote yes you are guaranteed $195,840.00 "

HUH wrote on Sep 30, 2008 6:39 AM:

" If your not happy with the contract why not just take the bail out? "

voa wrote on Sep 30, 2008 5:52 AM:

" I worked there some time ago, and what I always found to be enjoyable was how the contracts were accepted, but come the next day, nobody on the line voted for it!:)

In regards to how hard they work, that is laughable. How can they know how hard anyone outside of the plant works? They've all been in there for 20 years. We're working hard out here too, have injuries, stress, etc., as well, just not the money you make. We're happy for you, but just don't have an appreciation for your looking down on us as "not-as-hard-working." Good luck to you. "

Jim4 wrote on Sep 30, 2008 5:25 AM:

" BigBrother get in line for one of those $14.00/hr jobs. Oh, that would require you to do some work so we can forget about that. "

4mama wrote on Sep 30, 2008 3:27 AM:

" I'm having trouble understanding the economy these days and am looking for info. If the company is down in sales then how are they still supposed to be able to provide the same income to employees that they were able to afford when sales were up? If it were a small business and the sales were down then the owner's paycheck would be down too. Just a fact. The same exact job that he did wouldn't draw as much compensation, and he may ask his employees to take a pay cut to weather the storm. I don't know MMMA's bottom line, so it is hard to know if the cuts are something that the company needs to do to survive or not. I do know that my brother works there, and my brother-in-law was one of those who lost his job there a few years ago. I very much am hoping that all will get everything they deserve and that the company can afford, and that those who stick around during the tough times will be financially rewarded once the economy turns around. "

who cares wrote on Sep 29, 2008 10:25 PM:

" dno i agree.this is not going to turn out good.i hope a lot of other union bros are looking at the big picture.once you lose something in contract negotiations it's almost impossible to get it back.good luck. "

mgs500 wrote on Sep 29, 2008 10:19 PM:

" This will be a tough one for the Associates, no one WANTS to do the same job for less pay and benefits. But on the other hand, look at the inventory out on the plant's lot , how long can the company ship cars without building anymore? One month? two? more? During that time it's either strike pay or unemployment effectively starving out anyone that isn't prepared for a long drawn out process.

As I sit here reading my wife's copy of the summary, I think back upon all the injuries, pains and stress that she's endured in her time there and think the proposal is a slap in the face. But on the other hand, I think that $24 an hour for the next 4 years isn't chump change and we could weather the economic storm that appears to be coming without too much pain.

I hope the vote, whichever way it goes, is by a large margin. A simple majority could cause trouble down the road. "

shiloh wrote on Sep 29, 2008 9:50 PM:

" Big Brother - Ha Ha Ha! A long line of people waiting to get a $14 hour job there???? Yeah, right. If so, that is one long line of CLUELESS individuals. Many of those that do get hired will be out the door by first break. If people were walking out at $20+ an hour because they couldn't handle it (I worked there and, believe me, it happened more than once!) they'll be RUNNING at $14. "

Venture Bros. wrote on Sep 29, 2008 9:47 PM:

" This is what union dues go for. Mitsubishi needs exciting product, its a sagging brand in the USA auto sector. Ill be suprised if the plant is still producing anything in 2012. "

A C Herron wrote on Sep 29, 2008 9:45 PM:

" BigBrother is one example of these people who don't have a clue. I'm sure you have seen the Mitsubishi advertisements about the fantastic four. This plant produces four cylinder cars which are projected to take off in sales as opposed to the huge SUVs. The pay may seem high to BigBrother until he has worked the line and over time injured himself. "

2tired wrote on Sep 29, 2008 9:31 PM:

" Still a better contract than Cat received the last contract, you should be happy they are guarantee a job for the next 4 years. How the auto industry is right now I would be signing that in a second, but unemployement is better than a $24 hr job. "

BigBrother wrote on Sep 29, 2008 9:20 PM:

" Its nice to see some people are looking at the reality of life. In good times the unions always demand to share in the profit. Its only fair they share the losses when the survival of the company is on the line. If any union workers are not happy about this take the voluntary separation program. There is a long line of people willing to take your job for $14.00 an hour. Your guaranteed 4 years of work at great pay. Unemployment is at an all time high and it is not going to get better any time soon. "

DNO wrote on Sep 29, 2008 9:17 PM:

" There is at least 10 more take aways not listed here. Here is a few.
1. $3.08 cola......gone
2. Qepip (quality) bonus....gone
3. 401k company match.......gone
4. pension.......suspended...good as gone
It's a hell of a lot more than 4 bucks an hour! This is a crap sandwich without the $bread$ I'm voting no!! "

beowulf wrote on Sep 29, 2008 9:14 PM:

" To Ted Kennedy's Swim Instructor - No need to get hasty - this has not yet been ratified by the membership. Based on the initial reaction, this proposal has a good chance of being voted down. "

chuckles wrote on Sep 29, 2008 9:10 PM:

" Yes, it's all the Unions fault that future generations won't get payed enough! LOL
In case you haven't noticed, it's pretty much the standard in manufacturing these days and companies don't budge on it. What exactly are people barely hanging on to their jobs going to do about it? Go on strike?
People bashing Unions are the ones thinking only of themselves! "

A C Herron wrote on Sep 29, 2008 8:50 PM:

" Lets see.....AmerenIP raised their rates, Nicor raised their rates, gasoline prices are up, my real estate taxes went up (100 year old house), grocery prices are up, Doctors fees are up, medicine is up, education fees are up (things like driving school for teens, etc.), and the company would like to take away wages, health benefits, colas, 401k match and double prescription fees and thats the tip of the iceburg.

Add the fact that since second shift was laid off, the first shift has been doing double the jobs they were use to doing after jobs were combined. A message for the office worker who comments about the wage being too high to begin with: you would not last five minutes working on their production line. These workers work very hard and they deserve better than being sold out by their union. That includes the laid off workers who have no say about this contract despite it directly affecting them if recalled.

It's every Mitsubishi employee's obligation to say no to this slap in the face of hard working autoworkers. "

Ted Kennedy's Swim Instructor wrote on Sep 29, 2008 8:44 PM:

" Yet another union membership body thinking only of themselves . . .

A two-tier wage system for new hires? Way to sell the future generation down the river. "

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